Business Operations and Partnerships Department
Director of Business Operations & Partnerships: Louise Pringle
Council Headquarters, Eastwood Park, Giffnock, East Renfrewshire, G46 6UG
Phone: 0141 577 3000
website: www.eastrenfrewshire.gov.uk
Date: 17 November 2023
When calling please ask for: Linda Hutchison (Tel. No 0141 577 8388)
e-mail: This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it

TO: Councillor Andrew Morrison (Chair), Tony Buchanan (Vice-Chair), Provost Mary
Montague and Councillors Paul Edlin, Annette Ireland, David Macdonald and Gordon
Wallace.

AUDIT AND SCRUTINY COMMITTEE
A meeting of the Audit and Scrutiny Committee will be held in the Council Chamber, Council Headquarters, Eastwood Park, Giffnock, on

Thursday, 23 November at 2.00pm.

The agenda of business is as listed below.

Yours faithfully
Louise Pringle
L PRINGLE
DIRECTOR OF BUSINESS OPERATIONS & PARTNERSHIPS

AGENDA
1. Report apologies for absence.
2. Declarations of interest.
3. Chair’s Report.

4. Clarification Received on Queries Raised at Previous Meetings – Report by Clerk
(copy attached, pages 3 – 8).

5. Interim Treasury Management Report 2023/24 – Quarter 2 – Report by Head of
Accountancy (Chief Financial Officer)(copy attached, pages 9 – 32).

6. National External Audit Report – Early Learning and Childcare – Progress on
Delivery of the 1140 Hours Expansion – Report by Clerk (copy attached,
pages 33 – 44).

7. National External Audit Report – Scotland’s City Region and Growth Deals –
Progress on 2020 Audit Report – Report by Clerk (copy attached, pages 45 – 48).

8. Internal Audit Plan 2023/24 – Implementation Progress – July to September 2023
– Report by Chief Auditor (copy attached, pages 49 – 64).

For information on how to access the virtual meeting please email:-

This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it

A recording of the meeting will also be available following the meeting on the Council’s YouTube Channel

www.youtube.com/user/eastrenfrewshire/videos

This document can be explained to you in other languages and can be provided in
alternative formats such as large print and Braille. For further information, please contact Customer First on 0141 577 3001 or email

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You can read all Reports/Papers on Council webpage here -

www.eastrenfrewshire.gov.uk/audit-and-scrutiny-committee-231123

Agenda Item 8

EAST RENFREWSHIRE COUNCIL
AUDIT & SCRUTINY COMMITTEE
23 November 2023
Report by Chief Auditor
INTERNAL AUDIT PLAN PROGRESS REPORT 2023/24 QUARTER 2

RECOMMENDATION
5. The Committee is asked to:

(a) note Internal Audit’s progress report for quarter 2 of 2023/24

(b) confirm whether they wish any of the reports detailed in appendix 3 to be
circulated to audit and scrutiny committee members or submitted to a future meeting for more detailed consideration.

Further information is available from Michelle Blair, Chief Auditor

APPENDIX 1
EAST RENFREWSHIRE COUNCIL
Internal Audit Section
ANNUAL AUDIT PLAN FOR 2023/24 PROGRESS REPORT QUARTER 2

Education - Schools cluster

Audit Number : 10

Original No of Days : 38

Status : In progress

APPENDIX 2
INTERNAL AUDIT
REPORTS AND MEMOS ISSUED 2023/24

File Ref : MB/1195/NS

Audit Number : 10

Subject : Schools Cluster - Williamwood

Department : Education

Date Audit started : 27/7/23

------ Original Message ------
To: This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ; This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ; This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ; This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ; This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ; This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ; This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
Sent: Monday, 20 Nov, 2023 At 2:10 PM
Subject: Current Update November 2023 - Questions For Audit & Scrutiny Committee Meeting 23 November 2023 at 2:00pm - Value for Money ClassVR headsets designed by Avantis that cost £250,000

To: Chair and Members Audit & Scrutiny Committee

This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it (Chair)
This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ; This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ; This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ; This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ; This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ; This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it


Questions For Audit & Scrutiny Committee Meeting 23 November 2023 at 2:00pm - Agenda Item 8.

The Chief Auditor via Gerry Mahon has stated in their below email response (10 October 2023) regarding the cyclical school cluster audit -


'For clarity, there was no commitment to carrying out an investigation or to comment on the cost of the headsets or whether they were considered value for money. '


It would thus appear that this cyclical school cluster audit is just a distraction and will not answer the question

'Was The £249.875 spend on VR Class Headsets Value for Money for East Renfrewshire Council Tax Payers' ?

How then do East Renfrewshire Council Tax Payers get the answer to the question

'Was The £249.875 spend on VR Class Headsets Value for Money for East Renfrewshire Council Tax Payers' ?

Would appreciate if you can request update and ask questions regarding below and give answer to

How then do East Renfrewshire Council Tax Payers get the answer to the question

'Was The £249.875 spend on VR Class Headsets Value for Money for East Renfrewshire Council Tax Payers' ?

Agenda Item 8 - EAST RENFREWSHIRE COUNCIL - AUDIT & SCRUTINY COMMITTEE - 23 November 2023 - Report by Chief Auditor INTERNAL AUDIT PLAN PROGRESS REPORT 2023/24 QUARTER 2

RECOMMENDATION
5. The Committee is asked to:

(a) note Internal Audit’s progress report for quarter 2 of 2023/24

(b) confirm whether they wish any of the reports detailed in appendix 3 to be circulated to audit and scrutiny committee members or submitted to a future meeting for more detailed consideration.

Further information is available from Michelle Blair, Chief Auditor

APPENDIX 1 - EAST RENFREWSHIRE COUNCIL - Internal Audit Section - ANNUAL AUDIT PLAN FOR 2023/24 PROGRESS REPORT QUARTER 2

Education - Schools cluster
Audit Number : 10
Original No of Days : 38
Status : In progress

APPENDIX 2 - INTERNAL AUDIT - REPORTS AND MEMOS ISSUED 2023/24

File Ref : MB/1195/NS
Audit Number : 10
Subject : Schools Cluster - Williamwood
Department : Education
Date Audit started : 27/7/23


Questions -


1 - 'Was The £249.875 spend on VR Class Headsets Value for Money for East Renfrewshire Council Tax Payers' ?

2 - The Audit started on 27/7/23(5 months ago)

- When will it be completed?

- How many of the 38 days allocated have been used?

- What work has been completed? What work is outstanding?

The Chief Auditor commited to Chair Audit & Scrutiny Committee to check usage of Class VR Headsets -


' Regarding usage, this might be more difficult to check as I don’t think it is recorded by the schools and might just be anecdotal by asking parents of pupils that I know and school employees when school visits take place.'


- Have these checks been carried out? If not, when will they be carried out?

- If so, what are the results?

Again, the Chief Auditor via Gerry Mahon has stated in their below email response (10 October 2023) regarding the cyclical school cluster audit -

'For clarity, there was no commitment to carrying out an investigation or to comment on the cost of the headsets or whether they were considered value for money. '

How then do East Renfrewshire Council Tax Payers get the answer to the question

'Was The £249.875 spend on VR Class Headsets Value for Money for East Renfrewshire Council Tax Payers' ?

which started this whole matter.

You would think the Audit and Scrutiny Committee would give the answer as they have the responsibility to ensure 'value for money is being obtained' -

East Renfrewshire Council Scheme of Administration

FUNCTIONS OF STANDING COMMITTEES
9. The standing committees of the Council shall have the following areas of responsibility:-

Audit & Scrutiny Committee

(n) to examine the activities and accounts of the Council in order to ensure that


(a) the expenditure approved by the Council has been incurred for the purposes intended,


(b) services are being provided efficiently and effectively and


(c) value for money is being obtained;'


ERC gave Avantis £249,875 on 30 October 2017.

However,

4 years after this £249,875 spend and up to 23 October 2021 these VR Class Headsets had still to be used.

To date, there has been no recorded contact with Avantis in 2 years since 23 October 2021.

You have been previously sent all the files/facts confirming the above regarding recorded information available on the use of these VR Class Headsets.

Why are there no recorded reports/papers/updates/emails from Jonathan Hull/ERC/Avantis regarding date when Class VR Headsets would be 'Fit for Purpose' and be available for use?

- 'Mr Hull confirms he did not write any reports or papers specifically concerning the headsets. He had regular conversations with his manager and IT officials and the headsets would have been discussed in these conversations. '

Teachers show no enthusiasm for Class VR Headsets

In Email 12 May 2021 13:33 Jonathan Hull writes (to Avantis)

- 'I'll work on getting some keen teachers together to be the eyes and ears on the ground in each of our schools'

Subsequently

- 'Mr Hull advises this consisted of conversations with teachers in schools. From memory, this work did not go further as there were no teachers keen to take on the work of utilising the headsets in a classroom environment.'

This is a 'damning' revelation on the commitment to the use of these Class VR Headsets.

It is therefore a reasonable question to ask -

'Was The £249.875 spend on VR Class Headsets Value for Money for East Renfrewshire Council Tax Payers' ?

It was my understanding that this is the question the Audit & Scrutiny Committee were going to ask and answer via an Audit.

Your help is appreciated

Thanks


------ Original Message ------
From: "Mahon, Gerry" < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >
Sent: Tuesday, 10 Oct, 2023 At 18:18
Subject: Re: Complaint 5666-9075-8658-9226 - Chief Auditor Michelle Blair Ignored Requests for Information/updates regarding Avantis 900 ClassVR headsets that cost £250,000 and appear to have never been used

I refer to your undernoted complaint and write to advise that I have considered it as a Stage 1 complaint under the Council's Complaints Handling Policy.

I have now spoken with the Chief Auditor and would apologise for the fact that you have not yet received a response to your earlier request.

By way of update I have been advised that the Chief Auditor was on annual leave from 9 September to 25 September inclusive and therefore was unable to respond to the emails you sent on 12 September, 18 September and 25 September 2023.

Out of office replies are only sent once in reply to each sender. She has advised me that she apologises for not acknowledging your email on her return to the office but states that she is unable to provide the further information that you request as this is part of an ongoing audit.

The Chief Auditor in her response to Cllr Morrison said that she would incorporate checking of VR headset existence as part of a cyclical school cluster audits.

The school cluster audit was included within the 2023/24 audit plan and there was never any intention to start this audit until all 2022/23 audits had been completed.

The cyclical school audit commenced on 27 July 2023

Testing was to include asking about the use and safekeeping of VR headsets.

A sample of school inventories was to be obtained to see if the headsets are recorded and the numbers agree to the initial purchase for each school.

Further information was also to be sought regarding obsolescence.

For clarity, there was no commitment to carrying out an investigation or to comment on the cost of the headsets or whether they were considered value for money.

Regarding obsolescence, the Chief Auditor spoke to the relevant officer within the IT department who confirmed that to their knowledge the headsets were not obsolete and that there was a recurring contract in place which expires in January 2024 which allows the use of software for the headsets.

The cyclical school audit is in progress.

This audit covers a number of audit topics across all schools within the cluster.

When all fieldwork is completed the file will be reviewed by the chief auditor and the draft report issued to the director for comment.

Once the final report is issued and the departmental responses to recommendations are received, the summary findings will be included in the next available quarterly progress update report to the audit and scrutiny committee.

This will only include summary details plus inclusion of all recommendations rated medium or high or those not accepted by management.

The Chief Auditor will not have sight of the audit testing until all fieldwork is complete.

There is no further information that can be provided at present as the audit fieldwork is ongoing at the current time.

Following the review of your complaint the first stage of our complaints handling procedure is now complete.

I’ve considered all of the background information and circumstances relating to your case.

If you’re still dissatisfied you can have the matter investigated through the final stage of our complaints procedure.

Details of our complaints procedure are available on our website
www.eastrenfrewshire.gov.uk/make-a-complaint

or can be sent to you directly.

Yours sincerely
Gerry Mahon